I am a former Republican now independent who has no use for Trump/MAGA.
This affects us all
- Thread starter Cratchelow
- Start date
I actually like having a nice place to live. Dressing nicely. And theres nothing that sounds as sweet as a Ferrari. I like these things because I enjoy them. Not because of whether it impresses someone or not. And I was simply responding to dmoron’s claim that my life is unfulfilled. It is not.
You probably won’t like DeSantis then. You probably shouldn’t move here
Living and dressing slovenly doesnt seem like a worthwhile ambition? I work because it keeps me mentally sharp. Playing golf everyday as your only activity will turn your brain to mush.
I just retired last fall. Once we sell our current house and move, I plan to do some accounting work part time. I agree you have to do something purposeful.
I would never move anywhere based on politics.
Republicans don’t select a presidential candidate like Dims did with Hillary and Joe. They seem to, for the most part, let registered Republican voters decide their candidate. So it’s not really clearly who you’re ranting at for Trump being the nominee. And from what I could tell the supporters of old school Republicanism were a dying breed.
I think DeSantis is fantastic, while Trump is a complete con artist with a limited number of rational thoughts in his feeble mind.
MAGA is mostly people who hate the left without much reflection on what that means, so the value of the movement seems fairly leader dependent.
Outside his wasting money, Biden hasn’t been a particularly consequential President and would likely be even less so if he won again (he shouldn’t be running). He would however be good for the right in 2026 and probably 2028, especially if a modicum of reflection about Trump’s act is had (seems unlikely).
The part about wearing shorts everyday is true. And really nice. I own like two pairs of pants and almost no socks.
My first Florida house was in the panhandle and it was too cold in the winter there. So I agree with hating cold weather. When we sold that I looked for the southernmost place in the continental Untied States for my next residence.
DeSantis is fantastic. Smart and strategic. Everything Trump isn’t but like I posted I’m only one vote.
Your comment about what Republucans used to be presupposes that the last 30-40 years have been good for Americans and America. You really think so? All Americans?
We have discussed this before, but let’s be clear. There are almost no eras of history where change is good for all people in all places. The last 30-40 years has been one of high technological innovation. It has favored those who develop more advanced skills (doesn’t have to be education). It has also favored those in places where the laws have been more conducive to economic dynamism.
This cannot be said enough. On average, people are better off today than they were in 1980 or whatever. As the middle class has declined, more people have moved up than down.
But I do agree that some places and regions have declined. I am not certain how Republicans are to blame for this however. Where the GOP agenda has been pursued on the state level, working class Americans have mostly seen gains. Where there is more labor restrictions and less biz friendly laws, working class folks have often been hit harder. Separately, some of those struggling in this cohort have been more impacted by personal issues than economic ones. Trade (while benefitting most of us) has hurt some regions, but many of those regions were already under some level of pressure due to technological change and business moving away due to unfavorable state laws and the like (again, where I grew up some major losses well before China opened its doors for outsourcing, the jobs were being lost to technology and other US states).
At the end of the day, if people were compelled to vote on whether they were better off than they were in 1980 or 1990, the large majority would have to vote “better off.” I’m open to how to address those who aren’t, but I’m not open to the resentment from those acting like things are worse when it’s not true and it’s not true for them specifically.
How the American middle class has changed in the past five decades
The share of adults who live in middle-class households fell from 61% in 1971 to 50% in 2021, according to a new analysis.
www.pewresearch.org
All that may be true but…. I think if you think most people think deeply about how a particular party’s policies affect their lives you’re giving too much credit. Most people know when they’re better off on payday and lots of people have nothing to thank old school Republicans for. I worked with people that lived that life and if you can’t comprehend their angst that’s your problem. They have the same number of votes you do.We have discussed this before, but let’s be clear. There are almost no eras of history where change is good for all people in all places. The last 30-40 years has been one of high technological innovation. It has favored those who develop more advanced skills (doesn’t have to be education). It has also favored those in places where the laws have been more conducive to economic dynamism.
This cannot be said enough. On average, people are better off today than they were in 1980 or whatever. As the middle class has declined, more people have moved up than down.
But I do agree that some places and regions have declined. I am not certain how Republicans are to blame for this however. Where the GOP agenda has been pursued on the state level, working class Americans have mostly seen gains. Where there is more labor restrictions and less biz friendly laws, working class folks have often been hit harder. Separately, some of those struggling in this cohort have been more impacted by personal issues than economic ones. Trade (while benefitting most of us) has hurt some regions, but many of those regions were already under some level of pressure due to technological change and business moving away due to unfavorable state laws and the like (again, where I grew up some major losses well before China opened its doors for outsourcing, the jobs were being lost to technology and other US states).
At the end of the day, if people were compelled to vote on whether they were better off than they were in 1980 or 1990, the large majority would have to vote “better off.” I’m open to how to address those who aren’t, but I’m not open to the resentment from those acting like things are worse when it’s not true and it’s not true for them specifically.
How the American middle class has changed in the past five decades
The share of adults who live in middle-class households fell from 61% in 1971 to 50% in 2021, according to a new analysis.
And I’m fairly certain that if DeSantis were the Republican nominee he'd be subject to the same hating on as Trump is. One thing that’s very clear to me after Trump being in the political sphere for 8 years is the people in power in this country are not anxious to give it up. They’ll do whatever it takes using whatever powers they can muster to stay in control. That includes establishment Republicans. I give Trump credit for one thing…no one else would go through what he has for the last 8 years for a low paying job he doesn’t need.
Also, as I have repeatedly said, I am more than happy to be an independent who will select the better candidate until one party becomes rational. Nor am I ranting, but you just can’t help yourself due to the usual issues. I’m more than content rejecting the bad choices of GOP primary voters and voting for mostly other Rs.
And the idea that “old school Republicans are a dying breed” is definitely true, but it’s a complete misread of the electorate writ large. First, free market ideology has largely carried the day over several generations, and Dems have moderated quite a bit on economic policy post-Reagan (note how little they talk about taxes and most forms of regulation, tho they are still Dems). Second, there are more voters today in similar economic situations to those of the country club GOP base circa say 1988. However, many such voters have rejected the longstanding alliance between economic and social conservatives and vote Dem, thus weakening their influence on the GOP side (at the same time as more working class voters have migrated right for cultural reasons). This is generally called a realignment and it seems unclear how it’s going to play out because you have a growing share of the population that is disenchanted with both parties (Dems still too economically left, Rs too culturally/socially right). Very difficult to know how this plays out in a system conducive to only two major parties (as first past the post voting is).
You are totally right, the voters of the Midwest elected labor friendly politicians for decades only to see their jobs disappear to both domestic and foreign competition. The Japanese have made plenty of their cars in America, and not surprisingly they’ve done so in right to work states.
I still am at a total loss how free marketers are to blame for this. This is exactly what they said would happen.
Any which way, the average Trump primary voter is much better off than the average American (tho worse off than the average Haley voter), so most of this is probably not about economics. I do think Trump’s economic views helped him immensely among working class former Dem GE voters in places like Iowa and Ohio, but again that ain’t the primary. Culture wars animate primary voters on both sides more than economic ones, it seems, and Trump is deemed best at hating/upsetting the enemy.
Also Trump ran because he loves accolades and attention. Note sure what credit anyone deserves for that. Usually con artists are smart enough not to advertise the grift and not make themselves a target (no one care if Trump started fake universities, lied under oath, stiffed contractors, banged porn stars, and so on before he decided to become a politician).
Yes. Being out of touch with people is why I voted 3rd party in 92. Bush 41 was flying high after Desert Shield/Desert Storm and it’s amazing how quickly people can return their attention to the economy.
It is a simple, indisputable fact that the average American is materially better off today the he or she was in 1970, 1980, 1990, 2000, or 2010.
Outside of certain fairly narrow groups and geographical regions, the above issue is not what animates our politics. Hell … it seems clear to me that the border is not an economic debate even tho it’s probably most relevant in that realm. I do wonder if Trump could win Hispanics or something whether we’d see more willingness to compromise to solve the problem over time.
Outside of certain fairly narrow groups and geographical regions, the above issue is not what animates our politics. Hell … it seems clear to me that the border is not an economic debate even tho it’s probably most relevant in that realm. I do wonder if Trump could win Hispanics or something whether we’d see more willingness to compromise to solve the problem over time.
I suspect a lot of the divisive politics is driven by social media that makes distant events seem far more important and separately an aging population that is wired to believe how “things used to be better” (a common sentiment among the aged for all of human history as brains are wired to remember the good in the past and suppress the bad).
Old article. Some things are off such as Biden uniting the Dems and of course the author had to add some dip that we view China as a greater threat than Russia, because they aren’t white. Laughable, but a pretty good assessment of the Republican Party, the neo-cons and foreign policy. It isn’t just MAGA who is done with foreign interventionist policy.
newrepublic.com
The Neocons Are Losing. Why Aren’t We Happy?
A new isolationist strain is gaining dominance in the GOP. The noninterventionist part is fine. But then there’s the admiration for Putin, the hatred of alliances, the hostility to NATO ...
newrepublic.com
Old article. Some things are off such as Biden uniting the Dems and of course the author had to add some dip that we view China as a greater threat than Russia, because they aren’t white. Laughable, but a pretty good assessment of the Republican Party, the neo-cons and foreign policy. It isn’t just MAGA who is done with foreign interventionist policy.
The Neocons Are Losing. Why Aren’t We Happy?
A new isolationist strain is gaining dominance in the GOP. The noninterventionist part is fine. But then there’s the admiration for Putin, the hatred of alliances, the hostility to NATO ...
Interesting piece. I get a little lost thinking that there’s a deep well of belief that Ukrainians will fully defeat the Russians. A year ago that was at least arguable (Ukraine dictated the war from fall 2022 through spring 2023). Now, checking Russian power seems the best option and it would seem that supply Ukraine with arms would better achieve that than not doing anything. But ultimately exhaustion may force both sides into something of a stalemate even if no settlement is had, but that requires Ukraine at least losing a continued military threat to Russia.
The difference is Jeff isn’t coming to a forum of 12 people to brag about his accomplishments. That’s you.
Since when is anti-materialism a bad thing. You’re quite the douche.
Keep paying attention it will only get better.
This is a dude who spent years disliking me in part because I said playing by the (idiotic) rules of a trade association (the NCAA) was stupid when a huge chunk of the membership openly defied said rules. I genuinely thought he’d hate Donnie based on his moral superiority alone, but he defends him with lame RW talking points at most turns. It’s actually hilarious and belligerently hypocritical.
Any which way, moving onto a more general point, I don’t have to ever watch Fox again to know the RW thought process so long as I stay on this chain!
You sell yourself short, it is a fantastic accomplishment! Well done and congratulations! Most millionaires are exactly like you, they don't look the part because they aren't worried about keeping up with the Jones'.
Looks like I found the liberal with the slavish dedication to a cause. Why is it a good thing? The ad hominem attack…sign of a weak mind.
I’m not sure who you’re talking about. I had no idea what your opinion of NCAA rules was. But I think a lawyer that thinks that not following rules is hypocritical…but typical. You have made it abundantly clear that you fit the stereotype including in regard to the legal system.
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Weird that you talk about an offensive revolution in football that started 25 years ago and fail to see the possibility of alternatives. Then you accuse the “aging population“ to be tied to old notions of how things used to be. You do lack self awareness and are well on the way to becoming what you decry.
On the other hand I embrace technology and reinvent myself periodically with new interests.. Though I retain certain core values that I try to live by. I’d say I’m more open to ideas and possibilities than you.
The data you presented doesn’t align with what you just posted. The percentage of the middle class moving upward is only slightly higher than the percent getting poorer. You're bad with data.
Always the hero of your own story. You’ve consistently proven open to being wrong about nearly every debate that matters on here, great work.
It’s 7 in 11 or 64% you dumb ****. Last I checked 64% up and 36% down is pushing 2 to 1. The only person bad with data is you. Why are you so comfortable lying to others? That’s a regular occurrence and is typical for a total pussy like yourself.
Again congrats on that 1200 square foot dump. We are all super impressed. You literally called a dude out for not caring about being fancy, and you live in a ****ing shithole. I’d be embarrassed to hype that piece of shit up, and you do it.
The thing is, you talk so much shit. We both know you’ve never backed it up in your life. It’s actually humorous you keep doing it, I guess it safe on a message board.
Two things my parents taught me; be frugal and invest in the stock market. My parents were not college graduates and worked lower level office jobs yet they retired multi-millionares. To look at them, you would swear they did not have a pot to piss in.
When my mom went into memory care for the last four years of het life, she could afford the best around and I did not have to worry about the money running out. It was a great gift to me, my friends who had aging parents were under great stress on how to care for them.
Being frugal and investing is more of a conservative principle than a liberal one.
Bemusingly, AEI measures the decline of the middle class data a bit differently (equalizing income across timeframes rather than Pew’s setting middle class income only as a present comparison) and shows a massive jump in well off households and an actual decline in poor ones from 1967 to 2016. The difference between these two comparisons is that income in relative terms increased generally from 1967 to 2016 (another positive sign for the US economy over the long haul considering some of our peer countries are currently stuck in periods where income growth has been minimal nonexistent, which of course the US has avoided).
Can’t wait to see how the pathologically insecure metallurgist who bragged about his shitty house will spin this, but spin it he will. Insecurity will do a lot to undermine rational thought folks; you should avoid it.
Can’t wait to see how the pathologically insecure metallurgist who bragged about his shitty house will spin this, but spin it he will. Insecurity will do a lot to undermine rational thought folks; you should avoid it.
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www.aei.org
I have nice stuff. But I take care of and maintain my stuff. I have stuff in my possession that’s over 40 years old. I have stuff in my house that’s close to 20 years old but looks brand new. And when I acquire new stuff I do it as inexpensively as possible. I could tell you legendary stories about how I save money when shopping.
My wife and I have managed to work our way into a six figure retirement income and save our way into a seven figure savings account. And not had to look like hobos in the process.
My condolences to your mother. Mine was in memory care for over a decade. It’s a horrible way to go.
Too weird that you post a link to my house on the same message board where you claim I stalk you. I suppose the hypocrisy of that is lost on you?
Not my car as a neighbor parks there when I’m gone. Looks occupied that way. I never claimed it was huge but by Key West standards it’s not small. You’ve obviously never been here as it’s a small island with lots of people meaning high density. Still wouldn't trade it for anything in Dallas no matter how big.
I bought a foreclosure in Traverse City that’s now also nicely decorated and landscaped. Both properties are in desirable locations and have more than doubled in value since I purchased them. They also are a suitable size for a couple.
I lived in Texas so I’m aware of what they build there. It’s not comparable but please don’t post a link to your house here.
That article is 6 years old. Things have been getting much more unaffordable in recent years. Democrats are hoping people don’t pay attention to the recent trend this fall.
Housing Affordability Hits Historical Low in August 2023
Compared to one year ago, affordability fell in August as the monthly mortgage payment climbed 26.2% and median family income rose 4.7%.
www.nar.realtor
What it will take to make homes affordable again for millions of Americans
Mortgage rates jump to 8% is a housing affordability challenge that can be overcome, but it won't be easy and the homebuyer squeeze may last a long time.
You and Dr. TJ are the same person.
Someone points out your douchebaggery.. must be a liberal!!
My first Florida house was over 3000 square feet and my Ohio house was over 2000. I’m downsizing to account for a lower income in retirement and the need for less space. Maybe some day you’ll be as smart but this just goes to show your lack of ability to comprehend other people’s realities.
It was the comment about anti materialism that suggested that. Not your simple minded insult.
And I have to say I’ve enjoyed a few nice things along the way. Not exactly my philosophy but one of the first people I met that was close to retirement had a saying. “I want to die with a nickel more than it takes to bury me”. If you get to the end and haven’t enjoyed a few nice things along the way that’s kind of sad. Being frugal and living like a hobo while having millions in the bank is silly.
That article is 6 years old. Things have been getting much more unaffordable in recent years. Democrats are hoping people don’t pay attention to the recent trend this fall.
Housing Affordability Hits Historical Low in August 2023
Compared to one year ago, affordability fell in August as the monthly mortgage payment climbed 26.2% and median family income rose 4.7%.
What it will take to make homes affordable again for millions of Americans
Mortgage rates jump to 8% is a housing affordability challenge that can be overcome, but it won't be easy and the homebuyer squeeze may last a long time.www.cnbc.com
Yeah I wasn’t linking that for home affordability, and I suspect you are right that homes have become less affordable. They certainly have in the Dallas market.
Interestingly for the proposition I posted about, relative income over time, those nearer the bottom have actually seen the biggest increases in wages since 2016 (this was heralded as a victory in the Trump era but it’s largely continued under Old Joe). From a rich/middle class/poor perspective, I suspect an update of the data would show further decrease in the under 35K (2016 dollars) category, even despite inflation (which standardizing the dollars makes a non-variable).
I’ve mentioned two things about my life here. First, that I had a dominant performance in Statistics at UI taking Adam Martinsek’s (great prof too) class, in response to your increasingly stupid “you don’t understand data” takes.
Second, because TJ took it on himself to challenge whether I had the highest bar exam score, I linked that.
All I’ve learned is that you are a total braggart who doesn’t have all that much to brag about. I also don’t need to make comparisons, there’s no point in embarrassing you further and I genuinely don’t care if I am richer/smarter than you. I do care that your arguments still suck, more to come on that as our current hoops and fball coaches play things out.
