Forget it….

[tjfleck6]

Zelensky is a dictator and a moron. We will see if his advisors got to him tonight. Trump has crafted the perfect deal for the US, Ukraine, and Russia. The warmongers and Deep State naturally hate it.

Where are the best minerals? In Russian-occupied territory. Make that territory the DMZ with 1/3 shares of revenue going to Russia, Ukraine, and the US. That vested interest keeps the peace and the real peacemakers are dudes extracting minerals. Who is the loser? China - since they have a stranglehold on rare Earths.

It is great that Moses came down from the mountain to tell us that a guy who does everything a dictator does - isn't a dictator. LOL. That must be on the Bronze Tablet itself. Yet, he wants to waste money in Ukraine to stop an underwhelming Russia from somehow conquering Ukraine and then moving on to Europe. Russia will do neither. Peace is the answer and Putin is smart enough to grab it. We shall see with Z.

 

[dtrain79]

You should explain how Lincoln didn't suspend elections during the civil war, but the little comedian has. You have ignored the churches he's shut down. You have ignored him eliminating political opposition to come to your conclusion. Ukraine is not currently a democracy.. If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it is a duck. That's the sign of a dictator.

Under the Ukranian Constitution enacted before Zelensky even entered politics, the declaration of martial law suspends elections. Ukranian parliamentary elections were supposed to happen first, then later the Presidential election there. Both were suspended. Ukranian Parliament has ratified the suspension of elections btw.

Wartime Elections in Ukraine Are Impossible

Voting in the middle of the Russian invasion is legally and practically unworkable.

foreignpolicy.com

As for the church thing, there is a Russian Orthodox church loyal to Moscow which the Ukranian government has taken actions against. Literally the leadership of that church is tied in with the Putin Regime. I'm open to arguments that this is somehow wrong, but it's certainly not without cause and has to be expected during war. It's a whole lot less than interning the Japanese American citizenry!

These talking points you get from the online right are just as stupid as the online right. From the online left's wokeism to whatever this is from the online right ... when will reason prevail?

 

[dtrain79]

A neutered Bush just stood by and watched as Putin invaded Georgia. Like the other presidents you like, they all were weak enough to allow Putin to invade other countries. But, the one you guy who keeps Putin in check and more importantly, in Russia, well, he is a Russian stooge.

Geez, maybe a 12-pack would make it make sense, but I doubt it. Must be the hard stuff you are using.

In fairness, there is basically nothing anyone could do to help Georgia in that conflict. It was limited and Georgia's location basically forces you to stand by or actually start a hot war to stop Putin.

More than anything, it just showed who Putin is and where he was headed.

 

[OhioIllini]

You may "understand that," but everything you've said appears to be premised on Russia attacking a NATO member Ukraine and it compelling American involvement. I suspect he's hypothetically talking about other countries such as the Baltic states, which would compel American involvement should we live up to our commitments.

I think it's pretty obvious that he's making a containment argument. Which is, help us, and we'll help you stay out of a future conflict.

Again, one can dispute his argument, but man Putin's own behavior makes that hard.

I suppose Zelensky could be talking about deterring some future invasion of Estonia (for example) but why? It will be many many years before Ukraine would have any capability to help defend Estonia so his argument reduces to “what can you keep doing for me though the only thing I can do for you is kill some more Russian soldiers” (which may or, more likely, may not be of any real use to NATO).

Zelensky is foolish to make wild predictions on what the US will do or experience. It can only hurt his standing with the administration or even the American public and that’s not good for Ukraine, as he’s finding out.

 

[dtrain79]

I suppose Zelensky could be talking about deterring some future invasion of Estonia (for example) but why? It will be many many years before Ukraine would have any capability to help defend Estonia so his argument reduces to “what can you keep doing for me though the only thing I can do for you is kill some more Russian soldiers” (which may or, more likely, may not be of any real use to NATO).

Zelensky is foolish to make wild predictions on what the US will do or experience. It can only hurt his standing with the administration or even the American public and that’s not good for Ukraine, as he’s finding out.

I know you as a sharp guy, but I don't think you understand the geopolitics here.

The argument about stopping Putin in Ukraine is that "defeating him in Ukraine (or thwarting his big ambitions)" means he won't invade actual, existing NATO members such as the Baltic states, which are mostly hostile to Russia today AND are in NATO. That is the argument. Fund us, let us make Putin pay, and you won't put your own soldiers at risk.

 

[dtrain79]

Zelensky is a dictator and a moron. We will see if his advisors got to him tonight. Trump has crafted the perfect deal for the US, Ukraine, and Russia. The warmongers and Deep State naturally hate it.

Where are the best minerals? In Russian-occupied territory. Make that territory the DMZ with 1/3 shares of revenue going to Russia, Ukraine, and the US. That vested interest keeps the peace and the real peacemakers are dudes extracting minerals. Who is the loser? China - since they have a stranglehold on rare Earths.

It is great that Moses came down from the mountain to tell us that a guy who does everything a dictator does - isn't a dictator. LOL. That must be on the Bronze Tablet itself. Yet, he wants to waste money in Ukraine to stop an underwhelming Russia from somehow conquering Ukraine and then moving on to Europe. Russia will do neither. Peace is the answer and Putin is smart enough to grab it. We shall see with Z.

Lotta jealousy here. And yes, I understand these issue better than the people arguing about them, hence my rarely coming on here to waste my time.

Any which way, I was initially a skeptic about the minerals deal, but from what I can tell ISW (which is pretty darn neutral in its assessments) seems to think the minerals deal is actually a good hook for giving the US a future stake in Ukranian peace that the Russians would be concerned to defy. So I'd be completely fine if Z signed it, and it was never unreasonable that Trump proposed even if I'm squishy about taking minerals for past funding (future funding is different).

I'd be fine if a ceasefire was reached on something similar to the current lines with security guarantees from European peacekeepers. I would prefer the US not stop funding Ukraine if the Russians don't agree to these terms (and I'd be OK with Trump cutting off the spigot if Ukraine didn't).

One of the big issues is that the Russian offensive of 2024 has culminated without any major breakthrough. Everyone knows it on the ground, Ukraine is worried Russia wants to stop to rearm and that's it (so Russia is faking an interest in peace), everyone else would prefer to be done with the conflict and bottomless pit of money. I do like watching Russia destroy its military 50 or so miles from its border tho, that's good for us and worth every cent IMO.

 

[OhioIllini]

I know you as a sharp guy, but I don't think you understand the geopolitics here.

The argument about stopping Putin in Ukraine is that "defeating him in Ukraine (or thwarting his big ambitions)" means he won't invade actual, existing NATO members such as the Baltic states, which are mostly hostile to Russia today AND are in NATO. That is the argument. Fund us, let us make Putin pay, and you won't put your own soldiers at risk.

I'm sure that's the argument but the West has its limits and it seems Zelensky doesn't understand that. Despite all their righteous blustering, Europe really hasn't gone "all in" to help Ukraine win this war and maybe it's because they know Ukraine can't really win anyway. The best case is hoping Russia just gets tired but they've been hoping for that for two years now. Let's remember the Soviet Union didn't tire of Afghanistan until the 10 year mark and Afghanistan was a heck of a lot less important than Ukraine is, apparently, to Russia.

Bottom line is Zelensky needs to stop trying to endlessly extend this conflict under the notion that everyone wants him to. The EU might say they do but Zelensky's inability to read the room is the only reason he must believe that.

 

[OhioIllini]

Lotta jealousy here. And yes, I understand these issue better than the people arguing about them, hence my rarely coming on here to waste my time.

Any which way, I was initially a skeptic about the minerals deal, but from what I can tell ISW (which is pretty darn neutral in its assessments) seems to think the minerals deal is actually a good hook for giving the US a future stake in Ukranian peace that the Russians would be concerned to defy. So I'd be completely fine if Z signed it, and it was never unreasonable that Trump proposed even if I'm squishy about taking minerals for past funding (future funding is different).

I'd be fine if a ceasefire was reached on something similar to the current lines with security guarantees from European peacekeepers. I would prefer the US not stop funding Ukraine if the Russians don't agree to these terms (and I'd be OK with Trump cutting off the spigot if Ukraine didn't).

One of the big issues is that the Russian offensive of 2024 has culminated without any major breakthrough. Everyone knows it on the ground, Ukraine is worried Russia wants to stop to rearm and that's it (so Russia is faking an interest in peace), everyone else would prefer to be done with the conflict and bottomless pit of money. I do like watching Russia destroy its military 50 or so miles from its border tho, that's good for us and worth every cent IMO.

I think that makes a lot of sense and I think Trump was willing to go down this road until Zelensky ambushed him with more demands that the US wasn't going to agree to. There's a big difference between Europe sending peacekeepers and Ukraine's admittance to NATO.

 

[tjfleck6]

Shocking, they were lying to Jeff this whole time.

 

[tjfleck6]

 

[Uncoach]

Looks like Egypt came up with a plan that only happens if Hamxs is gone from leadership role.

Gaza: Arab leaders approve $53bn alternative to Trump's reconstruction plan

Egypt puts forward a counterproposal to the president's vision for a US takeover of post-war Gaza.

www.bbc.com

 

[djpc]

I'm sure that's the argument but the West has its limits and it seems Zelensky doesn't understand that. Despite all their righteous blustering, Europe really hasn't gone "all in" to help Ukraine win this war and maybe it's because they know Ukraine can't really win anyway. The best case is hoping Russia just gets tired but they've been hoping for that for two years now. Let's remember the Soviet Union didn't tire of Afghanistan until the 10 year mark and Afghanistan was a heck of a lot less important than Ukraine is, apparently, to Russia.

Bottom line is Zelensky needs to stop trying to endlessly extend this conflict under the notion that everyone wants him to. The EU might say they do but Zelensky's inability to read the room is the only reason he must believe that.

I'm sort of responding to several things that have been said immediately above, not just your post.

I feel bad for Zelensky and Ukraine. In theory we can keep sending money and guns and bombs until Ukraine runs out of bodies, and the very best they can hope for is a temporary stalemate, but eventually they'll get ground down. Zelensky presumably hopes that Putin will back down at some point soon, but I don't think he will. He's not a good guy and the political tradition he's inherited is not one that has historically valued human life, even of Russians.

I think some liberal Americans and Europeans convinced Zelensky there was a gap between the administration and what the US writ large wants that he could exploit to get a better deal for himself. Or maybe it's just that opposing Trump is the thing they hold most sacred. I don't think there is such a gap and it was a bad gamble on Zelensky's part, and he lost. Given what he was likely told, I don't blame him for trying, I suppose. He just misjudged the motives of the people who encouraged him to push back publicly. He's saying the right things now so we'll see what happens.

I'm not as convinced as many seem to be that Putin is going to jump at any chance to get out of the war. Getting a ceasefire agreement is a big first step, but then the real work starts. I think the only way the map goes back to where it was in 2022 is a direct military conflict between the US and Russia. That would be a really bad thing, IMO, although it would cause some lusty heavy breathing in a certain cohort here in the US. Putin's not an idiot and his calculus probably tells him the US and Europe almost certainly aren't willing to jump in the fray with boots on the ground and force him out. It'll be tough to get anything out of him that could be viewed as a concession in Ukraine. They'd have to find some other way to "compensate" him to achieve that. I don't know what that would be. And it feels kind of yucky to think about, but not as yucky as another year with casualties in the hundreds of thousands followed by the fall of Ukraine anyway.

 

[stoneaxe27]

I'm sort of responding to several things that have been said immediately above, not just your post.

I feel bad for Zelensky and Ukraine. In theory we can keep sending money and guns and bombs until Ukraine runs out of bodies, and the very best they can hope for is a temporary stalemate, but eventually they'll get ground down. Zelensky presumably hopes that Putin will back down at some point soon, but I don't think he will. He's not a good guy and the political tradition he's inherited is not one that has historically valued human life, even of Russians.

I think some liberal Americans and Europeans convinced Zelensky there was a gap between the administration and what the US writ large wants that he could exploit to get a better deal for himself. Or maybe it's just that opposing Trump is the thing they hold most sacred. I don't think there is such a gap and it was a bad gamble on Zelensky's part, and he lost. Given what he was likely told, I don't blame him for trying, I suppose. He just misjudged the motives of the people who encouraged him to push back publicly. He's saying the right things now so we'll see what happens.

I'm not as convinced as many seem to be that Putin is going to jump at any chance to get out of the war. Getting a ceasefire agreement is a big first step, but then the real work starts. I think the only way the map goes back to where it was in 2022 is a direct military conflict between the US and Russia. That would be a really bad thing, IMO, although it would cause some lusty heavy breathing in a certain cohort here in the US. Putin's not an idiot and his calculus probably tells him the US and Europe almost certainly aren't willing to jump in the fray with boots on the ground and force him out. It'll be tough to get anything out of him that could be viewed as a concession in Ukraine. They'd have to find some other way to "compensate" him to achieve that. I don't know what that would be. And it feels kind of yucky to think about, but not as yucky as another year with casualties in the hundreds of thousands followed by the fall of Ukraine anyway.

Ukraine will not fall. They held Russia to a standoff for 3 years and even hold a piece of Russia. If Russia hasn't been able to after three years , with no progress, what makes you think it is inevitable that they win? They are crap as a military power ,only tool is sending wave after wave of bodies to get turned into hamburger. Same as WWI, same as WWII, they are not a military power.

 

[rillaman]

The Free Press is right leaning, so more digging necessary, but it looks dirty.

 

[stoneaxe27]

View embedded media

The Free Press is right leaning, so more digging necessary, but it looks dirty.

Oh yeah, Elon and his kids will get to the bottom of it, release some outlandish lies, and all of you will believe it.

 

[dtrain79]

I'm sort of responding to several things that have been said immediately above, not just your post.

I feel bad for Zelensky and Ukraine. In theory we can keep sending money and guns and bombs until Ukraine runs out of bodies, and the very best they can hope for is a temporary stalemate, but eventually they'll get ground down. Zelensky presumably hopes that Putin will back down at some point soon, but I don't think he will. He's not a good guy and the political tradition he's inherited is not one that has historically valued human life, even of Russians.

I think some liberal Americans and Europeans convinced Zelensky there was a gap between the administration and what the US writ large wants that he could exploit to get a better deal for himself. Or maybe it's just that opposing Trump is the thing they hold most sacred. I don't think there is such a gap and it was a bad gamble on Zelensky's part, and he lost. Given what he was likely told, I don't blame him for trying, I suppose. He just misjudged the motives of the people who encouraged him to push back publicly. He's saying the right things now so we'll see what happens.

I'm not as convinced as many seem to be that Putin is going to jump at any chance to get out of the war. Getting a ceasefire agreement is a big first step, but then the real work starts. I think the only way the map goes back to where it was in 2022 is a direct military conflict between the US and Russia. That would be a really bad thing, IMO, although it would cause some lusty heavy breathing in a certain cohort here in the US. Putin's not an idiot and his calculus probably tells him the US and Europe almost certainly aren't willing to jump in the fray with boots on the ground and force him out. It'll be tough to get anything out of him that could be viewed as a concession in Ukraine. They'd have to find some other way to "compensate" him to achieve that. I don't know what that would be. And it feels kind of yucky to think about, but not as yucky as another year with casualties in the hundreds of thousands followed by the fall of Ukraine anyway.

What if the assumption that Ukraine needs to stop fighting more than Russia today is premised on a falsity? Setting aside the second paragraph on diplomacy and gambles or whatever, if Russia were in a position to drag the war on for multiple more years with little consequence to Russia, I'd agree with this assessment wholly. Better to end it, lick your wounds, and accept peace at some but not fatal cost.

That said, the situation on the ground is not what everyone assumes. I literally follow this fight daily. It's not curious Russia wants out right now, they launched a massive offensive across the Donbas (and Kharkiv) last year that was incredibly brutal and mostly ineffective. There were times it seemed like Russia had found its footing a bit, but the last 3 months have been really bad for the Commies (wink wink). Effectively they've stopped advancing meaningfully, and the cost remains tremendous. Russian armor is close to exhausted right now, I'm pretty sure they are using civilian vehicles in some of their offensive operations presently. Most of their efforts to advance have been entirely led by infantry, at staggering casualty rates.

I mentioned this earlier, but at the 2024 rate of casualties, Russia would incur 200,000,000 of them to take every square inch of Ukraine. That's not made up, it's a real number at 104 casualties per square kilometer gained (the 2024 rate of loss).

Effectively, Ukraine is largely on defense right now, but largely using Ukrainian made drones and artillery (from multiple countries) to break up Russian assaults. It is very low cost to the Ukrainian military relative to Russian losses.

 

[Uncoach]

 

[Uncoach]

View embedded media

The Free Press is right leaning, so more digging necessary, but it looks dirty.

Bari Weiss is “right-leaning”?

 

[Uncoach]

Good luck, Canada.

 

[Uncoach]

Under the Ukranian Constitution enacted before Zelensky even entered politics, the declaration of martial law suspends elections. Ukranian parliamentary elections were supposed to happen first, then later the Presidential election there. Both were suspended. Ukranian Parliament has ratified the suspension of elections btw.

Wartime Elections in Ukraine Are Impossible

Voting in the middle of the Russian invasion is legally and practically unworkable.

foreignpolicy.com

As for the church thing, there is a Russian Orthodox church loyal to Moscow which the Ukranian government has taken actions against. Literally the leadership of that church is tied in with the Putin Regime. I'm open to arguments that this is somehow wrong, but it's certainly not without cause and has to be expected during war. It's a whole lot less than interning the Japanese American citizenry!

These talking points you get from the online right are just as stupid as the online right. From the online left's wokeism to whatever this is from the online right ... when will reason prevail?

The Ukrainian Orthodox Church broke away from the Russians decades ago. Legal counsel for the priests of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church telling it like it is because he’s on the ground.

Yes, Zelenskyy Is a Dictator: Tucker Interviews Bob Amsterdam – The Occidental Observer

www.theoccidentalobserver.net

 

[bung23]

It is great that Moses came down from the mountain to tell us that a guy who does everything a dictator does - isn't a dictator

🤣

 

[djpc]

What if the assumption that Ukraine needs to stop fighting more than Russia today is premised on a falsity? Setting aside the second paragraph on diplomacy and gambles or whatever, if Russia were in a position to drag the war on for multiple more years with little consequence to Russia, I'd agree with this assessment wholly. Better to end it, lick your wounds, and accept peace at some but not fatal cost.

That said, the situation on the ground is not what everyone assumes. I literally follow this fight daily. It's not curious Russia wants out right now, they launched a massive offensive across the Donbas (and Kharkiv) last year that was incredibly brutal and mostly ineffective. There were times it seemed like Russia had found its footing a bit, but the last 3 months have been really bad for the Commies (wink wink). Effectively they've stopped advancing meaningfully, and the cost remains tremendous. Russian armor is close to exhausted right now, I'm pretty sure they are using civilian vehicles in some of their offensive operations presently. Most of their efforts to advance have been entirely led by infantry, at staggering casualty rates.

I mentioned this earlier, but at the 2024 rate of casualties, Russia would incur 200,000,000 of them to take every square inch of Ukraine. That's not made up, it's a real number at 104 casualties per square kilometer gained (the 2024 rate of loss).

Effectively, Ukraine is largely on defense right now, but largely using Ukrainian made drones and artillery (from multiple countries) to break up Russian assaults. It is very low cost to the Ukrainian military relative to Russian losses.

View embedded media

Neither one of them need to stop fighting at this point, and both seem to want to keep fighting. Russia is trying to undermine the minerals deal which seems to be the most expedient way to get Ukraine to the table, and I believe Putin is still sticking to their earlier demands for a ceasefire which includes Ukraine ceding areas they still occupy as well as everything Russia currently occupies, getting their territory occupied by Ukraine back, and a regime change, any one of which (except maybe getting their own territory back) is a non starter. I suppose that could be diplomatic posturing. But i'm not sure Western assessments use the same calculus Putin does and he may not be thinking the way we think he is. 2024 was a bad year for Russia over there no doubt, but I'd seen assertions they're already beginning to change their tactics away from their WWII M.O., they're still able to exceed their recruiting goals, and military production is ramping up (albeit only moderately). They may not conquer every acre all the way to the westernmost point in Ukraine, but I think in a further protracted war they'll eventually gain what they want and Ukraine will have to capitulate at that point, in the sense of giving up on getting their territory back.

 

[Uncoach]

Scott Jennings describes Murphy quite well.

 

[dtrain79]

Neither one of them need to stop fighting at this point, and both seem to want to keep fighting. Russia is trying to undermine the minerals deal which seems to be the most expedient way to get Ukraine to the table, and I believe Putin is still sticking to their earlier demands for a ceasefire which includes Ukraine ceding areas they still occupy as well as everything Russia currently occupies, getting their territory occupied by Ukraine back, and a regime change, any one of which (except maybe getting their own territory back) is a non starter. I suppose that could be diplomatic posturing. But i'm not sure Western assessments use the same calculus Putin does and he may not be thinking the way we think he is. 2024 was a bad year for Russia over there no doubt, but I'd seen assertions they're already beginning to change their tactics away from their WWII M.O., they're still able to exceed their recruiting goals, and military production is ramping up (albeit only moderately). They may not conquer every acre all the way to the westernmost point in Ukraine, but I think in a further protracted war they'll eventually gain what they want and Ukraine will have to capitulate at that point, in the sense of giving up on getting their territory back.

The problem for Russia is they bet a lot on 2024 going well and while it seemed like that may be the case by late summer, things have somewhat come apart since then. I think - but have no support - that the current casualty disparity is tremendously favorable to Ukraine. It's definitely been favorable

A lot what you've said above is reasonable enough, but I think items like recruitment and production started to turn more favorably 12-18 months ago and now both are again showing signs of strain. There's a reason for North Korean troops.

I do agree that Russia can continue to make marginal advances (and with moderate European support, Ukraine can avoid collapse). But continue to inflict a tremendous toll for limited territorial loss might be preferable to letting Russia call TO and take another crack in a few years. If Ukraine's problems were self-defeating, Ukraine would have collapsed in 2024. Doesn't mean they couldn't collapse in a couple of years, but their enemy's army could mutiny/economy self destruct in the interim.

At this point it's a real gamble for both sides. Trump is treating this as a gamble for only one side - Ukraine. Vance has his own head so far up his sorry ass that he thinks the things he sees on fringe right wing websites are God's truth.

I think an evenhanded approach of "stop now or we will throw even more weapons to Ukraine" while telling Ukraine "you don't settle, you won't get more" would work much better than the current Trump play.

 

[dtrain79]

🤣

It was a perfect analogy, and it's how I feel when I come on here. Like the only sane person out there. I mean, it shouldn't be that hard to understand that (a) Ukraine is in the moral right in this conflict; (b) Putin is a megalomaniacal gangster; and (c) Ukraine is still a democracy that will have elections sooner rather than later (and Z might lose them).

But how ... how can that compete with Gateway Pundit telling you the lies you are desperate to hear?

This was fun fellas. Enjoy the tariffs and see you in a few months. Maybe the crime rate will have fallen even further then.

 

[rillaman]

Do Democrats ever wonder if flying in a Venezuelan prison gang was a mistake? Any self reflection? Harris probably would have won in a landslide if the Dems even pretended to care about the border.

Sad seeing the mother of the 12 year old that was killed by TdA gang members. So unnecessary.

 

[rillaman]

Absolutely wild that this not only happened, but that Dems just can’t vote against allowing it to happen again.

We learned boys and girls shouldn’t play competitive sports against each other in elementary school dodgeball.

 

[rillaman]

Bari Weiss is “right-leaning”?

The Free Press (Common Sense) - Bias and Credibility

RIGHT-CENTER BIAS These media sources are slight to moderately conservative in bias. They often publish factual information that utilizes loaded words

mediabiasfactcheck.com

 

[rillaman]

The left is completely broken. They have proven they are incapable of making a common sense decision. Handcuffed by the activists in their party.

If it’s a non-issue, just say men don’t belong in women’s spaces. It will only impact a few people (they don’t really believe this).

 

[rillaman]

Democrats giving Trump a lot of photo opps where he appears to be the protector of women. We are in a bizarro world.

 

[djpc]

The problem for Russia is they bet a lot on 2024 going well and while it seemed like that may be the case by late summer, things have somewhat come apart since then. I think - but have no support - that the current casualty disparity is tremendously favorable to Ukraine. It's definitely been favorable

A lot what you've said above is reasonable enough, but I think items like recruitment and production started to turn more favorably 12-18 months ago and now both are again showing signs of strain. There's a reason for North Korean troops.

I do agree that Russia can continue to make marginal advances (and with moderate European support, Ukraine can avoid collapse). But continue to inflict a tremendous toll for limited territorial loss might be preferable to letting Russia call TO and take another crack in a few years. If Ukraine's problems were self-defeating, Ukraine would have collapsed in 2024. Doesn't mean they couldn't collapse in a couple of years, but their enemy's army could mutiny/economy self destruct in the interim.

At this point it's a real gamble for both sides. Trump is treating this as a gamble for only one side - Ukraine. Vance has his own head so far up his sorry ass that he thinks the things he sees on fringe right wing websites are God's truth.

I think an evenhanded approach of "stop now or we will throw even more weapons to Ukraine" while telling Ukraine "you don't settle, you won't get more" would work much better than the current Trump play.

I don't have any insight to the actual Russian strategy, but it makes sense they'd want to grab what they can once there was a pretty good chance Trump would be back. You're right it seems to have fallen flat.

I haven't heard our current POTUS say much at all about Russia regarding negotiations and eventual peace agreements, and if there have been any diplomatic talks between Russia and the US, they're still under wraps. I think once the mineral deal is in place it becomes more of a gamble for Russia to keep pushing the war. And to my knowledge POTUS has not said he was considering withdrawing support for Ukraine, although I think that possibility has been floated by others in the administration, or highly visible post-neocon Republicans. The stick the US has relative to both sides right now (assuming US boots on the ground is off the table for the time being) is money, guns and bombs to Ukraine. The mineral deal makes the flow of money, guns, and bombs much more in the US's strategic national interest.

One thing we'll disagree on is Vance, but I don't think he's a consequential player in this. Right now his job is to be Trump's wing man and that's what he's doing. At the extreme worst he's much less of a hindrance to US interests than the remaining cohort of Obama's wingpersons who are actively trying to undermine the administration.

Long way of saying my guess is that Trump's current play is exactly your suggested approach. From the outside it appears the mineral deal is a move to bolster that play in a way that's mutually beneficial to both the US and Ukraine, which is the side I think he favors at the end of the day. I think Trump's plan was to have that in hand to wave around when it was time to talk turkey with Russia. I don't take what the (D)s and neocons say about Trumps motives and actions as gospel. It's not an intellectually sound position, I admit, but the louder those cohorts crow "Putin puppet" the more I think our current POTUS is doing the right thing.

 

[tjfleck6]

Moses declared that this party will take the presidency and Congress in 2028.

The current version certainly won’t do it.

 

[Uncoach]

The Free Press (Common Sense) - Bias and Credibility

RIGHT-CENTER BIAS These media sources are slight to moderately conservative in bias. They often publish factual information that utilizes loaded words

mediabiasfactcheck.com

“Overall, we rate The Free Press as Right-Center biased based on editorial positions that are moderately critical of the left. We also rate them High for factual reporting due to proper sourcing of information and a clean fact check record. (D. Van Zandt 12/18/2023) Updated (12/13/2024)”

 

[rillaman]

“Overall, we rate The Free Press as Right-Center biased based on editorial positions that are moderately critical of the left. We also rate them High for factual reporting due to proper sourcing of information and a clean fact check record. (D. Van Zandt 12/18/2023) Updated (12/13/2024)”

All I said was it is right leaning. That appears to be accurate.

I like to check multiple sources, no matter what. I think the article I shared is worth looking into.

 

[Uncoach]

Moses declared that this party will take the presidency and Congress in 2028.

The current version certainly won’t do it.

View embedded media

There should be no one in America who isn’t happy a child beat cancer.

 

[Uncoach]

All I said was it is right leaning. That appears to be accurate.

I like to check multiple sources, no matter what. I think the article I shared is worth looking into.

I didn’t bold that to argue with you. I bolded it for the legacy media lovers…the bootlickers for lies. The FP get the center-right simply because of how hard they go after the progressives editorially. When the nutty NYT employees went after Bari as the NYT editor, she had enough. She started the FP. Definitely not funded by USAID. I applaud her for seeking truth and having a platform that reports it. I’ve mentioned her and several other journalists to follow.

 

[Uncoach]

 

[rillaman]

View embedded media

I love that they keep talking about 20 year olds as if they are incapable.

Yet they want high school kids to vote in national elections, and want kids far younger to make lifelong decisions that will destroy their body.

 

[Uncoach]

LOL. Sounds about right.

 

[rillaman]

There should be no one in America who isn’t happy a child beat cancer.

The left hates Trump so much that they have to hate everything he does. They can’t even appreciate a sweet moment.

People are noticing their reaction to this. Very telling.