Forget it….

[tjfleck6]

Zelensky is a dictator and a moron. We will see if his advisors got to him tonight. Trump has crafted the perfect deal for the US, Ukraine, and Russia. The warmongers and Deep State naturally hate it.

Where are the best minerals? In Russian-occupied territory. Make that territory the DMZ with 1/3 shares of revenue going to Russia, Ukraine, and the US. That vested interest keeps the peace and the real peacemakers are dudes extracting minerals. Who is the loser? China - since they have a stranglehold on rare Earths.

It is great that Moses came down from the mountain to tell us that a guy who does everything a dictator does - isn't a dictator. LOL. That must be on the Bronze Tablet itself. Yet, he wants to waste money in Ukraine to stop an underwhelming Russia from somehow conquering Ukraine and then moving on to Europe. Russia will do neither. Peace is the answer and Putin is smart enough to grab it. We shall see with Z.

 

[dtrain79]

You should explain how Lincoln didn't suspend elections during the civil war, but the little comedian has. You have ignored the churches he's shut down. You have ignored him eliminating political opposition to come to your conclusion. Ukraine is not currently a democracy.. If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it is a duck. That's the sign of a dictator.

Under the Ukranian Constitution enacted before Zelensky even entered politics, the declaration of martial law suspends elections. Ukranian parliamentary elections were supposed to happen first, then later the Presidential election there. Both were suspended. Ukranian Parliament has ratified the suspension of elections btw.

Wartime Elections in Ukraine Are Impossible

Voting in the middle of the Russian invasion is legally and practically unworkable.

foreignpolicy.com

As for the church thing, there is a Russian Orthodox church loyal to Moscow which the Ukranian government has taken actions against. Literally the leadership of that church is tied in with the Putin Regime. I'm open to arguments that this is somehow wrong, but it's certainly not without cause and has to be expected during war. It's a whole lot less than interning the Japanese American citizenry!

These talking points you get from the online right are just as stupid as the online right. From the online left's wokeism to whatever this is from the online right ... when will reason prevail?

 

[dtrain79]

A neutered Bush just stood by and watched as Putin invaded Georgia. Like the other presidents you like, they all were weak enough to allow Putin to invade other countries. But, the one you guy who keeps Putin in check and more importantly, in Russia, well, he is a Russian stooge.

Geez, maybe a 12-pack would make it make sense, but I doubt it. Must be the hard stuff you are using.

In fairness, there is basically nothing anyone could do to help Georgia in that conflict. It was limited and Georgia's location basically forces you to stand by or actually start a hot war to stop Putin.

More than anything, it just showed who Putin is and where he was headed.

 

[OhioIllini]

You may "understand that," but everything you've said appears to be premised on Russia attacking a NATO member Ukraine and it compelling American involvement. I suspect he's hypothetically talking about other countries such as the Baltic states, which would compel American involvement should we live up to our commitments.

I think it's pretty obvious that he's making a containment argument. Which is, help us, and we'll help you stay out of a future conflict.

Again, one can dispute his argument, but man Putin's own behavior makes that hard.

I suppose Zelensky could be talking about deterring some future invasion of Estonia (for example) but why? It will be many many years before Ukraine would have any capability to help defend Estonia so his argument reduces to “what can you keep doing for me though the only thing I can do for you is kill some more Russian soldiers” (which may or, more likely, may not be of any real use to NATO).

Zelensky is foolish to make wild predictions on what the US will do or experience. It can only hurt his standing with the administration or even the American public and that’s not good for Ukraine, as he’s finding out.

 

[dtrain79]

I suppose Zelensky could be talking about deterring some future invasion of Estonia (for example) but why? It will be many many years before Ukraine would have any capability to help defend Estonia so his argument reduces to “what can you keep doing for me though the only thing I can do for you is kill some more Russian soldiers” (which may or, more likely, may not be of any real use to NATO).

Zelensky is foolish to make wild predictions on what the US will do or experience. It can only hurt his standing with the administration or even the American public and that’s not good for Ukraine, as he’s finding out.

I know you as a sharp guy, but I don't think you understand the geopolitics here.

The argument about stopping Putin in Ukraine is that "defeating him in Ukraine (or thwarting his big ambitions)" means he won't invade actual, existing NATO members such as the Baltic states, which are mostly hostile to Russia today AND are in NATO. That is the argument. Fund us, let us make Putin pay, and you won't put your own soldiers at risk.

 

[dtrain79]

Zelensky is a dictator and a moron. We will see if his advisors got to him tonight. Trump has crafted the perfect deal for the US, Ukraine, and Russia. The warmongers and Deep State naturally hate it.

Where are the best minerals? In Russian-occupied territory. Make that territory the DMZ with 1/3 shares of revenue going to Russia, Ukraine, and the US. That vested interest keeps the peace and the real peacemakers are dudes extracting minerals. Who is the loser? China - since they have a stranglehold on rare Earths.

It is great that Moses came down from the mountain to tell us that a guy who does everything a dictator does - isn't a dictator. LOL. That must be on the Bronze Tablet itself. Yet, he wants to waste money in Ukraine to stop an underwhelming Russia from somehow conquering Ukraine and then moving on to Europe. Russia will do neither. Peace is the answer and Putin is smart enough to grab it. We shall see with Z.

Lotta jealousy here. And yes, I understand these issue better than the people arguing about them, hence my rarely coming on here to waste my time.

Any which way, I was initially a skeptic about the minerals deal, but from what I can tell ISW (which is pretty darn neutral in its assessments) seems to think the minerals deal is actually a good hook for giving the US a future stake in Ukranian peace that the Russians would be concerned to defy. So I'd be completely fine if Z signed it, and it was never unreasonable that Trump proposed even if I'm squishy about taking minerals for past funding (future funding is different).

I'd be fine if a ceasefire was reached on something similar to the current lines with security guarantees from European peacekeepers. I would prefer the US not stop funding Ukraine if the Russians don't agree to these terms (and I'd be OK with Trump cutting off the spigot if Ukraine didn't).

One of the big issues is that the Russian offensive of 2024 has culminated without any major breakthrough. Everyone knows it on the ground, Ukraine is worried Russia wants to stop to rearm and that's it (so Russia is faking an interest in peace), everyone else would prefer to be done with the conflict and bottomless pit of money. I do like watching Russia destroy its military 50 or so miles from its border tho, that's good for us and worth every cent IMO.

 

[OhioIllini]

I know you as a sharp guy, but I don't think you understand the geopolitics here.

The argument about stopping Putin in Ukraine is that "defeating him in Ukraine (or thwarting his big ambitions)" means he won't invade actual, existing NATO members such as the Baltic states, which are mostly hostile to Russia today AND are in NATO. That is the argument. Fund us, let us make Putin pay, and you won't put your own soldiers at risk.

I'm sure that's the argument but the West has its limits and it seems Zelensky doesn't understand that. Despite all their righteous blustering, Europe really hasn't gone "all in" to help Ukraine win this war and maybe it's because they know Ukraine can't really win anyway. The best case is hoping Russia just gets tired but they've been hoping for that for two years now. Let's remember the Soviet Union didn't tire of Afghanistan until the 10 year mark and Afghanistan was a heck of a lot less important than Ukraine is, apparently, to Russia.

Bottom line is Zelensky needs to stop trying to endlessly extend this conflict under the notion that everyone wants him to. The EU might say they do but Zelensky's inability to read the room is the only reason he must believe that.

 

[OhioIllini]

Lotta jealousy here. And yes, I understand these issue better than the people arguing about them, hence my rarely coming on here to waste my time.

Any which way, I was initially a skeptic about the minerals deal, but from what I can tell ISW (which is pretty darn neutral in its assessments) seems to think the minerals deal is actually a good hook for giving the US a future stake in Ukranian peace that the Russians would be concerned to defy. So I'd be completely fine if Z signed it, and it was never unreasonable that Trump proposed even if I'm squishy about taking minerals for past funding (future funding is different).

I'd be fine if a ceasefire was reached on something similar to the current lines with security guarantees from European peacekeepers. I would prefer the US not stop funding Ukraine if the Russians don't agree to these terms (and I'd be OK with Trump cutting off the spigot if Ukraine didn't).

One of the big issues is that the Russian offensive of 2024 has culminated without any major breakthrough. Everyone knows it on the ground, Ukraine is worried Russia wants to stop to rearm and that's it (so Russia is faking an interest in peace), everyone else would prefer to be done with the conflict and bottomless pit of money. I do like watching Russia destroy its military 50 or so miles from its border tho, that's good for us and worth every cent IMO.

I think that makes a lot of sense and I think Trump was willing to go down this road until Zelensky ambushed him with more demands that the US wasn't going to agree to. There's a big difference between Europe sending peacekeepers and Ukraine's admittance to NATO.

 

[tjfleck6]

Shocking, they were lying to Jeff this whole time.

 

[tjfleck6]

 

[Uncoach]

Looks like Egypt came up with a plan that only happens if Hamxs is gone from leadership role.

Gaza: Arab leaders approve $53bn alternative to Trump's reconstruction plan

Egypt puts forward a counterproposal to the president's vision for a US takeover of post-war Gaza.

www.bbc.com

 

[djpc]

I'm sure that's the argument but the West has its limits and it seems Zelensky doesn't understand that. Despite all their righteous blustering, Europe really hasn't gone "all in" to help Ukraine win this war and maybe it's because they know Ukraine can't really win anyway. The best case is hoping Russia just gets tired but they've been hoping for that for two years now. Let's remember the Soviet Union didn't tire of Afghanistan until the 10 year mark and Afghanistan was a heck of a lot less important than Ukraine is, apparently, to Russia.

Bottom line is Zelensky needs to stop trying to endlessly extend this conflict under the notion that everyone wants him to. The EU might say they do but Zelensky's inability to read the room is the only reason he must believe that.

I'm sort of responding to several things that have been said immediately above, not just your post.

I feel bad for Zelensky and Ukraine. In theory we can keep sending money and guns and bombs until Ukraine runs out of bodies, and the very best they can hope for is a temporary stalemate, but eventually they'll get ground down. Zelensky presumably hopes that Putin will back down at some point soon, but I don't think he will. He's not a good guy and the political tradition he's inherited is not one that has historically valued human life, even of Russians.

I think some liberal Americans and Europeans convinced Zelensky there was a gap between the administration and what the US writ large wants that he could exploit to get a better deal for himself. Or maybe it's just that opposing Trump is the thing they hold most sacred. I don't think there is such a gap and it was a bad gamble on Zelensky's part, and he lost. Given what he was likely told, I don't blame him for trying, I suppose. He just misjudged the motives of the people who encouraged him to push back publicly. He's saying the right things now so we'll see what happens.

I'm not as convinced as many seem to be that Putin is going to jump at any chance to get out of the war. Getting a ceasefire agreement is a big first step, but then the real work starts. I think the only way the map goes back to where it was in 2022 is a direct military conflict between the US and Russia. That would be a really bad thing, IMO, although it would cause some lusty heavy breathing in a certain cohort here in the US. Putin's not an idiot and his calculus probably tells him the US and Europe almost certainly aren't willing to jump in the fray with boots on the ground and force him out. It'll be tough to get anything out of him that could be viewed as a concession in Ukraine. They'd have to find some other way to "compensate" him to achieve that. I don't know what that would be. And it feels kind of yucky to think about, but not as yucky as another year with casualties in the hundreds of thousands followed by the fall of Ukraine anyway.

 

[stoneaxe27]

I'm sort of responding to several things that have been said immediately above, not just your post.

I feel bad for Zelensky and Ukraine. In theory we can keep sending money and guns and bombs until Ukraine runs out of bodies, and the very best they can hope for is a temporary stalemate, but eventually they'll get ground down. Zelensky presumably hopes that Putin will back down at some point soon, but I don't think he will. He's not a good guy and the political tradition he's inherited is not one that has historically valued human life, even of Russians.

I think some liberal Americans and Europeans convinced Zelensky there was a gap between the administration and what the US writ large wants that he could exploit to get a better deal for himself. Or maybe it's just that opposing Trump is the thing they hold most sacred. I don't think there is such a gap and it was a bad gamble on Zelensky's part, and he lost. Given what he was likely told, I don't blame him for trying, I suppose. He just misjudged the motives of the people who encouraged him to push back publicly. He's saying the right things now so we'll see what happens.

I'm not as convinced as many seem to be that Putin is going to jump at any chance to get out of the war. Getting a ceasefire agreement is a big first step, but then the real work starts. I think the only way the map goes back to where it was in 2022 is a direct military conflict between the US and Russia. That would be a really bad thing, IMO, although it would cause some lusty heavy breathing in a certain cohort here in the US. Putin's not an idiot and his calculus probably tells him the US and Europe almost certainly aren't willing to jump in the fray with boots on the ground and force him out. It'll be tough to get anything out of him that could be viewed as a concession in Ukraine. They'd have to find some other way to "compensate" him to achieve that. I don't know what that would be. And it feels kind of yucky to think about, but not as yucky as another year with casualties in the hundreds of thousands followed by the fall of Ukraine anyway.

Ukraine will not fall. They held Russia to a standoff for 3 years and even hold a piece of Russia. If Russia hasn't been able to after three years , with no progress, what makes you think it is inevitable that they win? They are crap as a military power ,only tool is sending wave after wave of bodies to get turned into hamburger. Same as WWI, same as WWII, they are not a military power.

 

[rillaman]

The Free Press is right leaning, so more digging necessary, but it looks dirty.

 

[stoneaxe27]

View embedded media

The Free Press is right leaning, so more digging necessary, but it looks dirty.

Oh yeah, Elon and his kids will get to the bottom of it, release some outlandish lies, and all of you will believe it.

 

[dtrain79]

I'm sort of responding to several things that have been said immediately above, not just your post.

I feel bad for Zelensky and Ukraine. In theory we can keep sending money and guns and bombs until Ukraine runs out of bodies, and the very best they can hope for is a temporary stalemate, but eventually they'll get ground down. Zelensky presumably hopes that Putin will back down at some point soon, but I don't think he will. He's not a good guy and the political tradition he's inherited is not one that has historically valued human life, even of Russians.

I think some liberal Americans and Europeans convinced Zelensky there was a gap between the administration and what the US writ large wants that he could exploit to get a better deal for himself. Or maybe it's just that opposing Trump is the thing they hold most sacred. I don't think there is such a gap and it was a bad gamble on Zelensky's part, and he lost. Given what he was likely told, I don't blame him for trying, I suppose. He just misjudged the motives of the people who encouraged him to push back publicly. He's saying the right things now so we'll see what happens.

I'm not as convinced as many seem to be that Putin is going to jump at any chance to get out of the war. Getting a ceasefire agreement is a big first step, but then the real work starts. I think the only way the map goes back to where it was in 2022 is a direct military conflict between the US and Russia. That would be a really bad thing, IMO, although it would cause some lusty heavy breathing in a certain cohort here in the US. Putin's not an idiot and his calculus probably tells him the US and Europe almost certainly aren't willing to jump in the fray with boots on the ground and force him out. It'll be tough to get anything out of him that could be viewed as a concession in Ukraine. They'd have to find some other way to "compensate" him to achieve that. I don't know what that would be. And it feels kind of yucky to think about, but not as yucky as another year with casualties in the hundreds of thousands followed by the fall of Ukraine anyway.

What if the assumption that Ukraine needs to stop fighting more than Russia today is premised on a falsity? Setting aside the second paragraph on diplomacy and gambles or whatever, if Russia were in a position to drag the war on for multiple more years with little consequence to Russia, I'd agree with this assessment wholly. Better to end it, lick your wounds, and accept peace at some but not fatal cost.

That said, the situation on the ground is not what everyone assumes. I literally follow this fight daily. It's not curious Russia wants out right now, they launched a massive offensive across the Donbas (and Kharkiv) last year that was incredibly brutal and mostly ineffective. There were times it seemed like Russia had found its footing a bit, but the last 3 months have been really bad for the Commies (wink wink). Effectively they've stopped advancing meaningfully, and the cost remains tremendous. Russian armor is close to exhausted right now, I'm pretty sure they are using civilian vehicles in some of their offensive operations presently. Most of their efforts to advance have been entirely led by infantry, at staggering casualty rates.

I mentioned this earlier, but at the 2024 rate of casualties, Russia would incur 200,000,000 of them to take every square inch of Ukraine. That's not made up, it's a real number at 104 casualties per square kilometer gained (the 2024 rate of loss).

Effectively, Ukraine is largely on defense right now, but largely using Ukrainian made drones and artillery (from multiple countries) to break up Russian assaults. It is very low cost to the Ukrainian military relative to Russian losses.

 

[Uncoach]

 

[Uncoach]

View embedded media

The Free Press is right leaning, so more digging necessary, but it looks dirty.

Bari Weiss is “right-leaning”?

 

[Uncoach]

Good luck, Canada.