Forget it….
- Thread starter bung23
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If it is a negotiating ploy, it will be fine. If the tariffs are permanent, then there will be a recession since Trump will be raising taxes and cutting spending simultaneously. Possible stagflation to boot.
Latest Election returns as of 4/02/25 have in the House; 220 Seats Republican, 213 Democrats.
Should add the Walz seems like a fraud to me. Whitmer gives me that vibe as well, not as much as some but it's definitely there.
You have the wrong President in your mind !
President Trump is Lowering Taxes !
1. No taxes on tips.
2. No taxes on overtime.
3. No taxes on Social Security.
4. Deductions on car loan interest, if car manufactured in USA.
DOGE is cutting spending as we post !
Their GOAL ?
4 Billion a day, 7 days a week !
Yeah, we'll have to wait and see. The last three Dem POTUS nominees emerged after some funny business in their primary process to circumvent their primary electorate to some degree or another. Their behind the curtain string-pullers don't trust their primary voters.
There are plenty of examples of you libs getting smashed by facts after you vomit out some bs liberal talking point.
All taxes are taxes on consumers. Some cost them money, some cost them opportunity, some cost them both.
Some taxes are worse than others. Tariffs are a highly regressive tax that will have a disproportionate impact on the poor and the middle class.
Let me try to explain.
Before USA levies tariff.
USA butter in US grocery stores = Price per pound as per competition in USA.
Canadian butter shipped to USA grocery stores = No price increase.
USA butter shipped to Canadian grocery stores = 262 % CURRENT tariff levied by Canada.
After USA levies tariff.
USA butter in US grocery stores = NO CHANGE IN PRICE.
USA butter shipped to Canadian grocery stores = 262 % CURRENT tariff levied by Canada.
Canadian butter shipped to USA grocery stores = 262 % reciprocal tariff levied by USA.
Canada lowers butter tariff, USA lowers butter tariff by the SAME % of $ !
No inflation by USA consumers buying from USA.
President Trumps lowering of gas prices, lowers the PRICE of goods at the grocery store !
You libs? Have I shared liberal talking points?
“Smashed by facts after you vomit out some bs”
Some pretty impressive word smithing from one of our resident master debaters!
The train being a drive by poster missed my Seth Keshel link that said Georgia and Arizona will go JD's way in 2028 because he will outperform Trump in the Raleigh/Charlotte and Phoenix suburbs (for the reason you cited). That puts JD at 262 electoral votes with the other 5 swing states up for debate
Is it? If tariffs are unbalanced against the US a car may cost less, but you may not have income to pay for even a cheaper one if you're trying to scratch out a living in the blue collar world. I see the effects of imbalanced tariffs and other unfair trade practices every time I drive around town here.
And there's also a strategic aspect of it. We need to have the capability of maintaining our infrastructure writ large without depending on importing critical manufactured materials. What's worse, 5% more for a car, or a power grid that fails and can't be repaired because we depend on our main geopolitical enemy for the needed parts and material?
(small edit for clarity)
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Jeff's solution for the economy is end the Trump tax cuts, keep manufacturing overseas, continue the extra 2T/year in COVID spending, keep the rampant Fraud/Waste/Abuse, and import at least 5M illegals per year to keep Jeff's prices affordable.
Oh, and give the illegals free healthcare and lifetime social security.
Why are Republicans so convinced that the Democrats cheat in their own primary elections?
Because the Democrats don't nominate the biggest idiot in the room. Perhaps Rs should take notes instead of hurling accusations.
Then again, the loony lefties also think Dems cheat. The conspiratorially minded may just think alike.
It’s like 2016 again with all of the dire warnings being issued. First it was a Nobel economic winner telling us to sell everything and now the Bronze Tablet has spoken.
Have you liquidated your portfolio yet like Jeff?
Have you liquidated your portfolio yet like Jeff?
I'm actually going to agree with one part of this take. Having industry capacity for certain items such as defense and pharmaceuticals is a genuine good.
However, the idea that neoliberal (or free market) economics have been bad for the average American is belied by every economic indicator we have to track wage, household income, and other growth. Yes, of course there are actual people who have been harmed by the transition of the economy away from manufacturing ... but there are far more people who are better off because of it.
Annual mean salary per employee in the U.S. 2023 | Statista
In 2023, the average wage and salary per full-time equivalent employee in the United States was at 81,359 U.S.
www.statista.com
I don't know. I'm not a Republican.
But it might be because DNC vice chair quit in '16 because the powers that be had thumbs on the scale for Hillary over Bernie. In '20 some sort of deal was cut to effectively install Biden, again over Bernie. In 2024 they installed a candidate who never received a primary vote.
As far as I'm concerned the (D)s can nominate whoever they want. I just don't think the (D) primary voters are a bastion of sanity against candidates like Bernie.
For better or worse, the (R)s seem to let their primary voters pick their candidate. For the same reason I say it about the (D)s, the (R)s can pick whoever they want as far as I'm concerned. My guess is they will continue to go with their voters because they won 2 of the last 3 doing that. If they rack up a couple of Ls in a row, they might go to more of a (D)-style approach.
The economic disaster, combined with the anti-American, authoritarian bent of the Trump policies, will be the kiss of death politically on a National level for anyone associated with the Trump Administration. Election in the deepest red of districts/states (like the Governor of Arkansas) will still be possible.
Well, the Dem primary voters voted pretty heavily against The Bern, especially in 2020. The "rigged the primary" stuff in 2016 was about superdelegates, but Hillary never needed a single superdelegate. She won the large majority of primaries.
I think you and I probably have some differences of opinion on the cyclical nature of political wins. Sometimes the economy (or the other team) hands you a golden opportunity. In my view, those are the times you try and win by the most, not squeak by with an insane candidate who half the country hates.
I guess this time the GOP faithful are getting the agenda many wanted. We will see how it goes. Ironically, if Trump cuts taxes and entitlement spending, I will like him more than I thought and a lot of his hardcore base will like him less. I don't think he'll cut the entitlements tho.
There's actually quite a long list of strategic items. Many of them feed into defense (steel, aluminum, semiconductors, plastics) that also feed into other sectors like automotive, computers, communications, etc. There is some movement towards some things domiciling their plant and equipment in the US which is good.I'm actually going to agree with one part of this take. Having industry capacity for certain items such as defense and pharmaceuticals is a genuine good.
However, the idea that neoliberal (or free market) economics have been bad for the average American is belied by every economic indicator we have to track wage, household income, and other growth. Yes, of course there are actual people who have been harmed by the transition of the economy away from manufacturing ... but there are far more people who are better off because of it.
Annual mean salary per employee in the U.S. 2023 | Statista
In 2023, the average wage and salary per full-time equivalent employee in the United States was at 81,359 U.S.
Free trade would be great, but how many of our trading partners are going to voluntarily remove their barriers in the spirit of free trade? Almost none. I have no philosophical probem with "fair" trade, which would simply be reciprocal tariffs, or sufficient tariffs to offset both tariffs imposed on our exports and subsidies to artificially lower the price of trade partner goods to wipe out out industries, assuming we have bidirectional trade with a country. Outside of the strategic items, I don't like tariffs for the sake of simple protectionism, but also recognize that restructuring for fairness and balance will have some of that effect. It's indisputable that, for example, competition from Japan in the 1980s forced US auto companies to up their game considerably. So the competition is good, it just shouldn't be 5-on-8 to borrow from basketball. I don't like using tariffs as a cudgel to extract non trade-related concessions.
In response to paragraph 2, why did the Trump Admin tank the Trans Pacific Partnership that was on the doorstep of being completed? Massive reduction in import duties with some critical trading partners ... and geopolitically put heat on China.
I think he likes the protectionism, as he's a 1980s Democrat (the ones the GOP defeated on policy lolol).
I've long stated that I think the issue of domiciled manufacturing is one that could be more carefully considered. I don't think the tariffs are going to get us there, either. And I don't want the government picking the winners here, I'm sure there's policy solutions to bolstering specific types of manufacturing without upending free trade.
I on the other hand root for health and prosperity for American's !
Fair enough. My take from the sidelines (as far as parties go) is that there are things most people agree on that are in all of our common interests. I think starting with Clinton both parties lost sight of those things for the most part. Trump saw that and exploited it. Many of his planks are simply updated versions of the pre-Clinton (D) planks. Identify the 80/20 issues and get on the 80 side. That's all the (D)s would have to do.
The NEW FBI under Kash Patel !
In March/2025, the FBI received a record of OVER 5,500 applications to become FBI Agents !
Since January/2025 they have received OVER 12,000 applications to become FBI Agents, a record.
In March/2025, the FBI received a record of OVER 5,500 applications to become FBI Agents !
Since January/2025 they have received OVER 12,000 applications to become FBI Agents, a record.
I don't know why he decided to do that. I don't hold the opinions I hold to support Trump, nor do I hold them because of Trump.
Trump does talk in protectionist terms. Lately he seems to have modified that to "fair trade" and the word "reciprocal" comes up more than I remember in the past. You might be right regarding where his true heart lies, or maybe he's evolving as good campaign rhetoric meets the real world limitations.
There is no free trade right now but assuming that the world, or at least we and our trade partners, got there, it's a tough one to solve. If we start subsidizing what we feel are critical industries our trading partners will rightfully say it's unfair, the same way we point at China's penchant for doing that and saying it's unfair. Maybe there's a way to come up with policy answers to keep enough industrial base to survive an extended real worldwide crisis but not have it impact trade, but that will just be a roundabout way to close off parts of our markets to foreign goods, and in the end not so much different than something like Canada's quota system. It's hard to keep plant and equipment and the proper skilled labor on tap for emergencies without it spilling over into non emergency situations.
Another point some commentators have made is that innovation and manufacturing often go hand in hand. After a career working in close proximity to state-of-the-art things being built, I can't quibble with that too much. But it's something else to be weighed in the n-dimensional space in which a solution needs to be found.
The Democrats aren't cheating. They are however undercutting the facade that "the people" choose their candidate. Bernie wins in 2016 and 2020 without intervention from the party in 2016 and James Clyburn (South Carolina) in 2020. In 2024, Democrat voters chose Joe. The party chose Kamala.
So, given that 2012 had an incumbent running, the Democrat voters haven't chosen their presidential candidate in 17 years!
To their credit, the Democrat powers chose their candidate the last 3 cycles. In contrast, the Republican powers have lost control of their party after selecting consecutive losers in 2008 and 2012.
These Trump tariffs will not be permanent. Even if Trump wishes it so, he will be forced to reverse them after he sets the economy on fire. The idea that Trump will use tariff money to fund tax cuts is laughable. Tax the poor and middle class through tariffs to fund tax cuts that will benefit the rich. We may see record low presidential approval ratings if this actually lasts for any period of time.
Yep, the only way the economy recovers from the Biden recession is with the Jeff plan.
Jeff's solution for the economy is end the Trump tax cuts, keep manufacturing overseas, continue the extra 2T/year in COVID spending, keep the rampant Fraud/Waste/Abuse, raise taxes, and import at least 5M illegals per year to keep Jeff's prices affordable.
Oh, and give the illegals free healthcare and lifetime social security.
There was no Biden recession you make up stuff just like Trump. I thought we weren't supposed to name other posters in our posts. Can't help yourself, can you?
US stock futures plummet in the wake of Trump's tariffs announcement
The reaction to Trump's sweeping tariffs announcement didn't take long to hit the U.S. stock market, with Dow Futures plummeting over 1,000 points by Wednesday evening.
Welcome to the Trump economy!
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