Forget it….

[AzIllini]

US stock futures plummet in the wake of Trump's tariffs announcement

The reaction to Trump's sweeping tariffs announcement didn't take long to hit the U.S. stock market, with Dow Futures plummeting over 1,000 points by Wednesday evening.

abcnews.go.com

Welcome to the Trump economy!

Obama and Biden did nothing on trade other than gradually see the US erode into more and more debt and our manufacturing base and intellectual property go elsewhere (and no flowers for Bush, Clinton et al as they were just as bad on trade). 36 trillion in debt and an economy with enormous trade deficits says the patient is not healthy. Academic economists say you do not have to balance the budget but I was an econ major at Illinois and I disagree. A trillion dollars annually in interest payments is just one reason why they are wrong.

You can argue about Trump's methods to try to solve things but I find it hard to believe anyone thinks we don't have a problem. At least Trump is trying something. The downside is countries join together to fight the tariffs and at least Canada is trying to get this going.

 

[JeffT818]

Obama and Biden did nothing on trade other than gradually see the US erode into more and more debt and our manufacturing base and intellectual property go elsewhere (and no flowers for Bush, Clinton et al as they were just as bad on trade). 36 trillion in debt and an economy with enormous trade deficits says the patient is not healthy. Academic economists say you do not have to balance the budget but I was an econ major at Illinois and I disagree. A trillion dollars annually in interest payments is just one reason why they are wrong.

You can argue about Trump's methods to try to solve things but I find it hard to believe anyone thinks we don't have a problem. At least Trump is trying something. The downside is countries join together to fight the tariffs and at least Canada is trying to get this going.

I don’t blame him for trying to fix the problem but his approach is terrible. Start with the two or three largest countries and try to work on a deal not tangle with the whole world. What is there to gain by antagonizing the entire world all at once? Trump may encourage other countries to form alliances against the US. It is beyond stupid. Remember how countries moved investments out of China during Covid? Well the same thing could happen to the US if the situation becomes just as unstable. If stability is not reached within 60 days or so, look out.

 

[tjfleck6]

There was no Biden recession you make up stuff just like Trump. I thought we weren't supposed to name other posters in our posts. Can't help yourself, can you?

Hey Jeff - I was replying to your post, so hopefully it is OK to engage you directly when I do that. I didn't mean to hurt your feelings. For that I apologize.

The Biden government fudged an awful lot of numbers, Jeff. Believe what you will. They did pump the economy with an extra 2T in spending and lots of government jobs. You have said you are against debt, but have yet to demonstrate that you actually mean it.

Nice of you not to dispute your economic plan which was simply a compilation of all of your takes in this thread. The great news is Moses likes your post. Did you know Moses made a bet in 2016 in which the only way he could win was a Hillary victory in the Electoral College AND a Hillary victory in the great state of Utah?

 

[Uncoach]

And a Heck of a college football coach !

The DG build-up continues: more B-2, B-52's, additional transports and refueling planes and P-3 for Sub detection AND ELINT detection !

NO idea what happened ?

The football coach was Howard Schnellenberger. There is an “n” in his last name that isn’t in the other guy’s. Yes. He was a heckuva football coach.

 

[tjfleck6]

I don’t blame him for trying to fix the problem but his approach is terrible. Start with the two or three largest countries and try to work on a deal not tangle with the whole world. What is there to gain by antagonizing the entire world all at once? Trump could encourage other countries to form alliances against the US. It is beyond stupid. Remember how countries moved investments out of China during Covid? Well the same thing could happen to the US if the situation becomes just as unstable.

Except, Jeff, 5 Trillion is being invested in the US in 2 short months. What a horrid take.

Oh, and these countries are going to 'gang up' on the US? Good luck with that. I quoted the Euro wine people the other day - "There is no replacing the US market".

The US holds the cards. They can try to retaliate, but it will hurt them a lot more. Good luck to getting in an alliance with Canada. Taiwan is already set to invest in pipeline infrastructure and an LNG port in Alaska - no need for Canada.

 

[JeffT818]

Hey Jeff - I was replying to your post, so hopefully it is OK to engage you directly when I do that. I didn't mean to hurt your feelings. For that I apologize.

The Biden government fudged an awful lot of numbers, Jeff. Believe what you will. They did pump the economy with an extra 2T in spending and lots of government jobs. You have said you are against debt, but have yet to demonstrate that you actually mean it.

Nice of you not to dispute your economic plan which was simply a compilation of all of your takes in this thread. The great news is Moses likes your post. Did you know Moses made a bet in 2016 in which the only way he could win was a Hillary victory in the Electoral College AND a Hillary victory in the great state of Utah?

I don’t care if you mention me by name just giving you a hard time. 😉

 

[Uncoach]

Pretty sure I simply said she's "not an idiot" despite the caricature made of her on the right. You should perhaps not create arguments that are figments of your imagination if you want to engage. (My view of Tim Walz is exceedingly low btw, he does seem completely underwhelming.)

The best argument against Harris is that she's nothing more than a left-oriented, political climber hack (Slick Willie) who lacked an ability to express a position outside the party's standard positioning at a given moment. That's hard to do if you are legit dumb. I actually think she ran close to the best campaign she could, with the caveat in retrospect she should have argued that Biden failed on a bunch of stuff and she wasn't "going back" (lol to that slogan) to the Ancient Mariner either. Not sure Dems were ready for that tho.

Glad you are doing better btw, that was good to see.

You stated she was bright because of the University from which she graduated. She had to be smart to graduate from there. She makes blonde bimbos look smart.

 

[JeffT818]

Except, Jeff, 5 Trillion is being invested in the US in 2 short months. What a horrid take.

Oh, and these countries are going to 'gang up' on the US? Good luck with that. I quoted the Euro wine people the other day - "There is no replacing the US market".

The US holds the cards. They can try to retaliate, but it will hurt them a lot more. Good luck to getting in an alliance with Canada. Taiwan is already set to invest in pipeline infrastructure and an LNG port in Alaska - no need for Canada.

There are certain materials that the US needs from other countries like Canada. Aluminum is just one example. Some countries will look to broaden their customer base.

 

[JeffT818]

Except, Jeff, 5 Trillion is being invested in the US in 2 short months. What a horrid take.

Oh, and these countries are going to 'gang up' on the US? Good luck with that. I quoted the Euro wine people the other day - "There is no replacing the US market".

The US holds the cards. They can try to retaliate, but it will hurt them a lot more. Good luck to getting in an alliance with Canada. Taiwan is already set to invest in pipeline infrastructure and an LNG port in Alaska - no need for Canada.

There are too many countries on this list. Who cares about 400 million in imports from Botswana. Focus on the big fish, the rest is BS.

5 Trillion in investments due to Trump? I will believe it when it happens. You probably believe all those made up savings numbers from DOGE.

 

[tjfleck6]

I don’t care if you mention me by name just giving you a hard time. 😉

I am trying to cut down on it in new posts

 

[tjfleck6]

There are certain materials that the US needs from other countries like Canada. Aluminum is just one example. Some countries will look to broaden their customer base.

Again, the US is the biggest consumer in the world and we are truly irreplaceable. Trump is starting with tariffs that are half of those levied on US goods by the other countries. That seems quite generous of the US and also allows for the pain to be doubled if they retaliate. I don't believe in free rides.

There are too many countries on this list. Who cares about 400 million in imports from Botswana. Focus on the big fish, the rest is BS.

5 Trillion in investments due to Trump? I will believe it when it happens. You probably believe all those made up savings numbers from DOGE.

The list was awesome. You will note that Central American countries largely had low tariffs on US goods. Asian countries in general were quite high. Already India, Vietnam, Canada, and Mexico have given ground among others. This will be a boon for the US.

Why wouldn't you believe the DOGE savings is real? The government just increased their budget overnight by 2T. A ton of waste there and unnecessary spending. You should be outraged at the waste in our government. Why aren't you? After all, you did say correctly the debt is a bomb. What I don't believe is that Congress will fix it.

 

[JeffT818]

Whoops! Trump Slaps Tariffs on Uninhabited Islands

President Donald Trump implemented tariffs on several uninhabited islands, Wednesday as part of a confused effort to establish equal trade.

www.mediaite.com

Incompetence thy name is Trump.

 

[JeffT818]

https://www.wsj.com/opinion/donald-trump-liberation-day-tariffs-protectionism-82d0aa3a

 

[Uncoach]

Does anyone think USPS will ever be efficient? It’s hard to believe. I hope so, but am quite skeptical.

https://www.wwlp.com/news/local-news/usps-changes-begin-tuesday-how-could-your-mail-be-affected/

 

[JeffT818]

Again, the US is the biggest consumer in the world and we are truly irreplaceable. Trump is starting with tariffs that are half of those levied on US goods by the other countries. That seems quite generous of the US and also allows for the pain to be doubled if they retaliate. I don't believe in free rides.



The list was awesome. You will note that Central American countries largely had low tariffs on US goods. Asian countries in general were quite high. Already India, Vietnam, Canada, and Mexico have given ground among others. This will be a boon for the US.

Why wouldn't you believe the DOGE savings is real? The government just increased their budget overnight by 2T. A ton of waste there and unnecessary spending. You should be outraged at the waste in our government. Why aren't you? After all, you did say correctly the debt is a bomb. What I don't believe is that Congress will fix it.

DOGE Is Trying to Make It Harder to Track All Its Savings Lies

Elon Musk’s agency changed how it reports savings on its error-riddled website.

www.yahoo.com

 

[Uncoach]

 

[Uncoach]

 

[JeffT818]

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/04/02/treasury-secretary-bessent-says-market-woes-are-more-about-tech-stock-sell-off-than-trumps-tariffs.html

What a joke.

 

[Uncoach]

 

[JeffT818]

Herbert Hoover sharply increased tariffs in 1930. That really worked out well.

Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act | History, Effects, & Facts | Britannica

Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act, U.S. legislation passed on June 17, 1930, that raised import duties to protect American businesses and farmers, adding considerable strain to the international climate of the Great Depression. Learn about the development and effects of the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act in this...

www.britannica.com

 

[bung23]

The half of the country that did not vote for Trump sees the judges that you label as activist as the last defenders of the Constitution against a rogue president.

More proof that the “half” that didn’t vote for Trump are morons.

 

[bucshon]

Growing up in a Democrat union family in the 60’s/70’s, I remember when Democrats were protectionists. They were the champions of workers in the manufacturing and energy sectors. Now, they are siding with Wall Street and the multinational corporations. It’s stunning.

 

[JeffT818]

More proof that the “half” that didn’t vote for Trump are morons.

And they would say the same thing about you.

 

[bung23]

Some pretty impressive word smithing from one of our resident master debaters!

Another concerning development here is your curious attraction to my master debating prowess…

 

[bung23]

And they would say the same thing about you.

And they were and are wrong.
When voters are voting against common sense policy, you have to ask yourself why they are doing that… TDS is real and party tribalism is real and have certainly contributed to certain people actually voting for a party that doesn’t share their policy outlook.

 

[JeffT818]

And they were and are wrong.
When voters are voting against common sense policy, you have to ask yourself why they are doing that… TDS is real and party tribalism is real and have certainly contributed to certain people actually voting for a party that doesn’t share their policy outlook.

Again, with the exception of TDS, they would say the same thing about Trump voters. Both sides accuse each other of the same thing. They see Trump government workers lose their jobs and Trump farmers being hurt by Trump policies.

 

[ILisBest]

Obama and Biden did nothing on trade other than gradually see the US erode into more and more debt and our manufacturing base and intellectual property go elsewhere (and no flowers for Bush, Clinton et al as they were just as bad on trade). 36 trillion in debt and an economy with enormous trade deficits says the patient is not healthy. Academic economists say you do not have to balance the budget but I was an econ major at Illinois and I disagree. A trillion dollars annually in interest payments is just one reason why they are wrong.

You can argue about Trump's methods to try to solve things but I find it hard to believe anyone thinks we don't have a problem. At least Trump is trying something. The downside is countries join together to fight the tariffs and at least Canada is trying to get this going.

I don’t blame him for trying to fix the problem but his approach is terrible. Start with the two or three largest countries and try to work on a deal not tangle with the whole world. What is there to gain by antagonizing the entire world all at once? Trump may encourage other countries to form alliances against the US. It is beyond stupid. Remember how countries moved investments out of China during Covid? Well the same thing could happen to the US if the situation becomes just as unstable. If stability is not reached within 60 days or so, look out.

If I was in charge, I would probably have started with a couple of trade wins to avoid outside alliances and get some momentum to show a path for other countries.

On the other hand, no other POTUS has even attempted to right size this problem, so I will give some grace here. Trump is very old and could easily walk around these problems ignoring the compounding problems. He has had the courage to address them. I will let it play out before judging.

 

[ILisBest]

Again, with the exception of TDS, they would say the same thing about Trump voters. Both sides accuse each other of the same thing. They see Trump government workers lose their jobs and Trump farmers being hurt by Trump policies.

Like this "government worker" that lost their job?



We shouldn't let any of them go. Just raise taxes!

 

[JeffT818]

Like this "government worker" that lost their job?

View embedded media

We shouldn't let any of them go. Just raise taxes!

That sounds like an outside contractor milking the system and deserved to be let go. However, the media is interviewing disillusioned Trump voters who lost their 50k lower level government jobs. The point is not whether these job cuts made sense. The point is that these people voted against their own self interest and were surprised by the results.

 

[djpc]

Growing up in a Democrat union family in the 60’s/70’s, I remember when Democrats were protectionists. They were the champions of workers in the manufacturing and energy sectors. Now, they are siding with Wall Street and the multinational corporations. It’s stunning.

I grew up in very much the same type of milieu, even though as far as I know, no one in my family were actually union members. What's even more interesting to me is to see who among them stayed loyal to the party, and who stayed loyal to the traditional (D) principles. Generally party won out over principal, with only a few exceptions.

 

[tjfleck6]

True on this board.

 

[John Kay]

Generally party won out over principal, with only a few exceptions.

I think you could say this about the current state of both parties.

 

[rillaman]

It’s amazing, I’ve never heard the media say that other countries are hurting their own people by having tariffs on American goods. Not once.

 

[djpc]

I think you could say this about the current state of both parties.

Possibly so, but I can't recall anyone I knew in my family or growing up who was a Republican, either in official party membership or in terms of who they generally supported, meaning I don't have any firsthand observations. One of my grandmothers liked Reagan, but that was because she new him in HS in Dixon, not because of his politics. I don't even know if she voted for him.

 

[tjfleck6]

Not exactly good news for the Left.

 

[JeffT818]

Not exactly good news for the Left.

View embedded media

Nobody cares. Trump's tariff policies will have the biggest impact on the 2026 elections. Trump reduces barriers to trade MAGA will be looking good. If there is a recession with high prices then MAGA is screwed. It's the economy which will matter the most unless there is a foreign policy crisis.

 

[rillaman]

Nobody cares. Trump's tariff policies will have the biggest impact on the 2026 elections. Trump reduces barriers to trade MAGA will be looking good. If there is a recession with high prices then MAGA is screwed. It's the economy which will matter the most unless there is a foreign policy crisis.

To be fair, you didn’t care that cities and states spent hundreds of billions on non citizens, and now those cities/states will beg the federal govt to bail them out. Most people do care about that and the damage Dems did. Some people do actually care about fraud. Dems have shown they do not, at all. Pretty interesting that the Dems don’t care about foreign influences on our elections after years of complaining about Russia doing just that.

I do agree with your overall statement that the economy will matter most.

 

[BigWill]

View embedded media

You may have witnessed Nancy being wheeled into the Capitol for the recent Trump speech ?

BOTH should retire !

Ripe to go is also the Blue Hair gargoyle, and Bernie !

 

[ILisBest]

That sounds like an outside contractor milking the system and deserved to be let go. However, the media is interviewing disillusioned Trump voters who lost their 50k lower level government jobs. The point is not whether these job cuts made sense. The point is that these people voted against their own self interest and were surprised by the results.

Contractor/ Employee the gravy train is over. You should be glad.

So, you want Trump to only fire Democrats?

The government is too big. A little of all types of voters will be swept up in the clean up. This is why all the previous POTUS never tackled these problems. They are not clean fixes, including the trade cleanup.

 

[JeffT818]

To be fair, you didn’t care that cities and states spent hundreds of billions on non citizens, and now those cities/states will beg the federal govt to bail them out. Most people do care about that and the damage Dems did. Some people do actually care about fraud. Dems have shown they do not, at all. Pretty interesting that the Dems don’t care about foreign influences on our elections after years of complaining about Russia doing just that.

I do agree with your overall statement that the economy will matter most.

Most of the topics discussed on this board do not register with the general public. They don't care about this committee hearing or that DOGE is lying about the savings achieved. They don't care about Trump inciting a riot or assaulting women. They don't care about Soros or Musk either. Most people care about three things: finances, crime and personal freedom. I guarantee with the market down about 1,500 points and a lot of financial uncertainty. People are much more concerned about their finances than some judicial committee hearing.