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I don't subscribe to WAPO so I don't know what their "journalists" are saying. However, Trump seems to be bungling the Ukraine peace talks so far. Maybe it is the art of the deal.
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If you lose Lindsey and his ilk, you're not in a good spot. I didn't see the whole exchange, but my understanding is it's bad form to have the diplomats put a bow on things, then show up and essentially demand more from your benefactor, in front of the media no less. It's Zelensky's country and if he wants to keep fighting Russia, his call.
Zelenskyy is on Fox News right now. It sounds like the biggest key for him is getting a guarantee from the U.S. and Europe for security forces to maintain peace if they negotiate a cease fire. “Security guarantees”. He stops short of asking to join NATO.
What he really wants, IMO, is for the U.S. and Europe to continue to help him win the war. He’s not ready to make any concessions to achieve a peace deal.
Zelenskyy: “I want (Trump) to be on our side. Two parties together against Russia”.
They’re at an impasse. Trump wants to be in the middle, brokering a peace deal with both warring nations. Zelenskyy wants the world to punish Russia for invading his country.
I think Zelenskyy may be forced out of power soon. His hardline stance is meant to gain the support of Ukrainians domestically, but it’s likely to achieve the opposite.
As for the incident earlier today…never have a meeting of the heads of state until there’s a done deal ready for signatures. Diplomacy 101.
Also, a language and cultural barrier contributed to the spat. Neither side completely understood each other.
What he really wants, IMO, is for the U.S. and Europe to continue to help him win the war. He’s not ready to make any concessions to achieve a peace deal.
Zelenskyy: “I want (Trump) to be on our side. Two parties together against Russia”.
They’re at an impasse. Trump wants to be in the middle, brokering a peace deal with both warring nations. Zelenskyy wants the world to punish Russia for invading his country.
I think Zelenskyy may be forced out of power soon. His hardline stance is meant to gain the support of Ukrainians domestically, but it’s likely to achieve the opposite.
As for the incident earlier today…never have a meeting of the heads of state until there’s a done deal ready for signatures. Diplomacy 101.
Also, a language and cultural barrier contributed to the spat. Neither side completely understood each other.
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What concessions will Ukraine have to make for a peace deal?
Regardless of the deal, Putin had to be thrilled that the relationship between the US and Europe is at its lowest point that I can remember.
‘Free world needs a new leader’: Europe defends Zelenskyy after Trump attack
France, Germany and Poland all make prompt declarations of support as Europe fears Trump’s alignment with Putin.
www.politico.eu
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The Art of the Deal was fiction, written by a Ghost writer that has made that clear.
What concessions will Ukraine have to make for a peace deal?
Regardless of the deal, Putin had to be thrilled that the relationship between the US and Europe is at its lowest point that I can remember.
‘Free world needs a new leader’: Europe defends Zelenskyy after Trump attack
France, Germany and Poland all make prompt declarations of support as Europe fears Trump’s alignment with Putin.
They will not be able to restore the borders that existed before the first invasion in 2014.
Putin is under tremendous pressure at home. He’s not thrilled with anything right now.
I'm thinking/guessing the US thought they had a deal that was ready for signing. Does Trump think he was double-crossed?
I’m not sure what was in the mineral rights deal, so it’s hard to say. I do know that Trump saw the deal as a condition for continued U.S. support.
The main thing is Trump is not convinced that Zelenskyy is interested in a peace deal, but rather wants to keep fighting the war on his own terms with American money.
Also, as we know Trump is very thin skinned and he felt personally disrespected by Zelenskyy’s combative attitude. TIFWIW
Zelenskyy: “Ukrainians cannot change our attitude about Russians. They are killers for us. They are enemies”.
As another poster on this forum posted in the past 2 weeks, the Russians starved to death 30-40 million Ukranians in the 1930's. The Ukrainians hate the Russians. Russia invaded Ukraine and has killed and raped their way to 20% of the country and devastated the rest. Trump's negotiation skills suck if he doesn't understand. Meanwhile Laura inghram is saying the Ukrainians should surrender as I write this. Lots of synophants in the media, even at Fox News.
Why is a security guarantee so bad? What is Trump going to do when Russia invades Finland? Apparently nothing.
Why is a security guarantee so bad? What is Trump going to do when Russia invades Finland? Apparently nothing.
Trump said today that he understands why Zelenskyy hates Putin. However, peace isn't possible if those hatreds are driving the discussion. If the U.S. is to broker a deal, it has to be based on the realities on the ground.
People are willing to sacrifice hundreds of thousands of lives to punish Putin, mostly because of politics. Armchair warriors. I wonder what their position would be if U.S. forces were deployed to Ukraine, including their own sons and daughters. I vaguely remember the American anti-war movement. Where did those people go?
This new McCarthyism that creeps into the debate isn't useful in any way. It's propaganda meant to demonize and discredit those who have opinions that people don't like. That's how powerful people in the U.S. gained support for Ukraine from many Americans....by erroneously tying American politicians that they hate to Russia / Putin. But as Deep Throat said, "follow the money". Ulterior motives galore.
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If the US is not economically tied to Ukraine (rare metals, etc.) why would we offer any security guarantee? They aren't in NATO and the issue that irritated Putin in the first place was US meddling in Ukraine and then the idea of them joining NATO when Brandon Admin started is what moved Putin to take more.
I think Trump believed the mineral deal was a de facto security guarantee, apparently based on the premise that if the US had a major interest in Ukraine through economic presence/ties. Russia would be dissuaded in the future from violating whatever cease fire and eventual peace that could be negotiated. I think Doug was correct that Trump wants to stand in between the two sides and broker an end to the war. Zelensky seems to want Trump to serve his desire to continue the war until he wins it.
Your perjorative about the Ukrainians is weird. The Ukranians were invaded, murdered, and raped. Russia has no right to do this. But it is McCarthyism to say otherwise?
What it really means is it is open season for dictators in China and Russia to conquer, murder and rape. No one wants to be a McCarthy and oppose it.
Is there any foreign country you would want the US to give a security guarentee to? Really a difficult subject as no one wants to be the World's policemen.
I don't think the threat of Ukraine joining NATO had much to do with Russia invading Ukraine. Just BS from Putin, IMO.
Then get some __alls and call it a security guarentee. After what Russia did to Ukraine, seems like an understandable desire on their part.
No, its McCarthyism to claim that people who want an end to the war are on Putin's side.
McCarthyism was a period in the 1950's where everything was anti Soviet Union. I think Putin desperately wants to end the war but only after he wins at the negotiating table. Trump just wants it over. I would be worried if I were Ukraine.
The Art of the Deal was fiction, written by a Ghost writer that has made that clear.
I thought Trump did, or very close to it, in the meeting today. Could be wrong though, there was a lot of inturrupting and talking over going on. But this wasn't a fist attempt to hammer something out. The diplomats thought an agreement was reached. Zelensky wants money and weapons and maybe soldiers, then he'll talk about a cease fire. Trump wants a cease fire, then he'll talk about what comes next, with the economic deal a carrot to assuage concerns about future security. I'm not unsympathetic to Ukraine's position, just trying to make sense of what's happening.
You think that is close to the total Trump/Vance embarrassment we saw today?
It was a really easy call for Putin. Biden Admin was full of Obama people that Putin took advantage of.
Sadly, it wouldn't be a huge surprise. If that's true I wonder if they're surprised Trump didn't back down, or if they just wanted to submarine a cease fire.
This seems accurate. During the Brett Baer interview, Zelenskyy talked about peace through strength. The Ukrainians are also very skeptical that Putin would honor a cease fire. They don’t want to let their guard down.
Theoretically, to gain more sympathy for the Ukrainian cause. Also, to send a message that Europe and Ukraine itself will dictate the terms of any potential peace talks. For Zelenskyy, part of it was likely to gain more respect from his own people. “I stood up to the big, bad Trump, and I did it for you”.
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